Barrel Tuners

[schoolbus]

Is anyone using a barrel tuner on their rimfire barrel? I know that the rimfire benchrest shooters are using them with some success but I'm puzzled about it's benefit when shooting from a IHMSA freestyle position where the tuner is resting against the leg. Anyone have any thoughts or experience?
Gordon

[BurmKiller]

I have them on my Suhl 150 and Anschutz 54:18 benchrest rifles but honestly I believe the effect on a shorter barrel would be less than on a rifle and the accuracy benefit would make little difference. I do not feel it would be worth it, but then I am not an International class shooter. Others may feel differently.

[Landy]

Gordon,

Asking about tuners usually results in the same type of forum warfare as does asking about the best way to clean a barrel. Everybody is an expert or knows someone who is and they’re not afraid to voice their opinion. I would urge you to accept any advice you get with a grain of salt and that includes the thoughts I’m about to give you.

For the most part, I agree with BurmKiller and I’m an International Class shooter with hundreds of 40x40’s. (Unfortunately, the majority of them were back when Neanderthals were still painting cave walls.)
The debatable small improvement in accuracy you might get is far less important than keeping the ergonomics of your pistol suited to the freestyle position you use. In most, but maybe not in all cases, you have to add too much weight to the barrel and you end up with a very muzzle-heavy pistol with all the drawbacks that entails.

You also have to remember that pistol silhouette is one of the truest forms of pure marksmanship relative to many of the various other shooting disciplines and that means your ability to see/align your sights and minimize your “wobble” zone will always overpower all but very large gains in accuracy.

That being said, I still love tinkering and spending money to make my firearms more accurate than they need to be. Although it will probably never get me an extra target on the normal course of fire....it might help me pick up an animal or two in the shoot-offs (if my failing eyesight allows me to see them).

Landy

[BurmKiller]

Let me further clarify (as my previous post was from my iPhone and no where near as long as I would like it to have been...)

Shooters are like golfers - they will spend any amount of money on anything regardless of how ridiculous it is if they can be convinced it will improve their performance. The use of a barrel tuner on an unlimited gun is legal, so long as barrel length rules and weights are still met. If you feel the need - or just the desire to play around - than by all means I see no reason why you shouldn't. After all, screwing with the guns is part of the fun, right?

The tuners I have are Hoehn's, though there are a half dozen different makes that are common in rimfire BR. These are finely tuned through many hours of testing for very particular bullets (.22LR's) and would need to be re-tested if I changed ammo. The "Purists" go as far as saying lot number of ammo. This is due to the fact that the mass and velocity of the projectile will cause different amplitudes and frequencies of vibrations in a given barrel. They are not inexpensive. I do believe that the effect of a correctly setup tuner that matches the ammo fed through the rifle does make a difference. Now, when I say that I mean in terms of rimfire benchrest groups. We are talking VERY small groups compared to IHMSA. Sub 1/4" groups at 50 yards are fairly common. Do you NEED that for IHMSA? There is always the argument that every little bit helps - to which I cannot disagree.

With a shorter barrel, especially a bull style barrel, the effects of harmonic vibration are less than they are on a rifle barrel (without getting into modal analysis...). So what you need to ask yourself is "Am I ready to drop $200 or so, lock myself into a particular type of ammo/load, test for hours, possibly give up barrel length depending on type/mount of tuner, possible cut weight somewhere else to get what may be a 0.10" improvement at 100 yards? Also note that tuners are not really practical for iron sights - so you are talking your UAS pistol.

Ya, I am probably not the right person to take this point of view as I would probably do it. But I would have to freely admit it was more for the fun than for any realistic expectation that my silhouette score would improve.

Now where is the order form for that motorize dual-torch annealer...?

[19Turkeys]

I posed this question to a friend of mine that has done more research into all aspects of shooting silhouettes than anyone I know. He had acted as a product consultant to many companies including manufacturers of suppressors.

He sent me a rather long response which goes into great detail. Hopefully, you will find some interesting points.

"I will give this a shot. There are really many things to look at and I will make an assumption that we are only looking at unlimited pistol silhouette shooting.

1. A non-tapered bull barrel will vibrate less than a skinny tapered barrel. A short barrel will vibrate less that a long barrel. 2. IHMSA and NRA weight and length rules have made it difficult to solve some of these problems.
3. I strongly feel that the length of a barrel should be measured to the crown. Anything sticking out past the crown is not a barrel but rather some add on. This includes bloop tubes, turners, suppressors, etc., Who ever wrote the current rules obviously felt differently about this.
4. As you know I have done extensive testing using a rail gun (return to battery) setup. The majority of my testing has been on silhouette pistols.
5. My testing indicates that almost anything hanging on the end of a 22LR barrel will dampen vibration and improve group size. This is said after testing various barrels with tuners, barrel weights, suppressors, empty cans that are used for suppressor construction.
6. My personal preference is a good quality suppressor. The extra weight on the end of the barrel will improve group size. A suppressor eliminates the gas ejection from the barrel reducing recoil and barrel climb. The net effect is to give the shooter a chance to do his/her own spotting and accurately judge shot placement. Suppressors are several hundred dollars each and require a $200 tax to BATF. Not cheep. Some states do not allow suppressors contrary to federal law, NFA 1934
7. Tuners are adjustable and with some work will consistently improve group size. Get one that is a quality device and has small repeatable increments of adjustment. Testing of various tuners and results from other shooters are available from various sources. They do not require the end of the barrel to be threaded like a suppressor.
8. Now about the freestyle position reducing vibration. Based on my testing I would not think it would really do much to reduce vibration. This position helps the shooter shoot better not the gun to work better. Since we are stuck with the 15 inch barrel limit and it must include any tuner then length is the determining factor. I have tested several Anschutz pistols with factory barrels in my rail gun. They will all shoot 5 shot groups at 25 yards using Eley 10X ammo in the mid 0s to low 1s in my indoor range. Outdoors 50 yard groups are quarter inch and smaller.

Yes, a tuner will reduce the groups. First get the best pistol you can afford. The Anschutz can't be beat for price and performance. Only use the very best ammo. That is Eley. I say that after testing all kind of ammo and rifles and pistols in the rail gun under excellent conditions. The only exception to that was the Fed UM1. That ammo would just edge out Eley consistently. However Fed did not know what they had or what to do with it. Chronograph Eley in your gun, establish sight settings. Then find some other inexpensive and available ammo that chronographs at the same velocity as Eley. Practice with the cheep ammo. Shoot Eley in all the big matches. Remember half the diameter of a 22 bullet makes the difference between a hit and a miss on any edge shot. If you shoot 60 or 80 round perfect scores and lose the match in the shoot off phase to an edge shot......"

Steve W.

[schoolbus]

Thanks for the responses. This gives me lots to think about. The pistol I want to try a tuner on is my High Standard Sharpshooter which has a 10" Volquartsen barrrel. It wears a 1½ - 4 Burris and will be used for 22 UAS. The only ammo that I found to shoot accurately in this gun (without a tuner) was the now discontinued Eley Super Silhouex (1200 fps). I've kinda convinced myself that the only way to find sufficiently accurate ammo that doesn't break the bank is to use a tuner. A friend made a barrel tuner for me to try and I am just beginning the testing. Shooting from a pistol rest got me to wondering if the barrel vibrations (barrel tuning) would be changed when shooting from freestyle position. Only one way to find out for sure but that's part of the reason we love this sport ain't it.

[IHMSA80x80]

Interesting, as I am in the process of doing this very same thing. I already have several guns with tuners for rimfire benchrest competition and got the idea to try one for silhouette. Not sure how much difference it will make, as far as any measurable difference, but it is worth a try. This is not an attempt to gain more targets, as I am already INT class and have shot hundreds of perfect scores over the years. It is just a new project to play with. Something different.

The gun is a Calfee Exemplar, built for me in 1989, with a 15" Douglas match barrel. The tuner is a Hoehn 4000 without weights. I shoot in a "sidewinder or crippled cockroach" position with the gun resting on top of the leg. With only that 8 oz. weight hanging on the end of the barrel, it is extremely heavy to hold in the standard creedmoor position. The dead-frog position would also work for this. The gun will be shot with the forend resting on top of my leg, so that the barrel is not touched in any way. As you can see in the setup, right now I only have iron sights on the gun, as I plan to shoot the gun in Unlimited for now.

One would think a scope would be better for the initial testing for different ammo or lot numbers and that would be correct. However, I wondered if the removal of the scope and mounts would affect the accuracy of the ammo...would that require a new tuner setting to compensate for the loss of total gun weight and vibrations? Something to test for, but hard to do with iron sights when you are talking minuscule differences in group sizes. The gun has been re-zeroed for the added weight and I am waiting the spring weather to continue work on this.
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