Which One?

[PilotShaneR]

Ok, I want to build me a Freestyle .22lr of the following guns which one would you choose? They all are about the same price in one way or another. If you know of any one wanting to sell and Anshutz Exemplar give me a shout.

1. Anschutz Exemplar
2. PiCuda
3. MOA
4. XP 100
5. Savage Striker

[highstandard40]

Of the 5 choices, I would go with the Exemplar first, then in order MOA, XP100 (not cheap for the conversion needed), Striker, PiCuda

[PilotShaneR]

Thanks, I am trying to buy a Anschutz now, and I am keeping my eye on a MOA.

[19Turkeys]

I would go with the Anschutz for sure. Also, I read somewhere that a gun manufacturer introduced a new .22LR bolt handgun at the SHOT Show. Anyone else see that?

Steve W.

[highstandard40]

Mossberg announced a new 22 bolt handgun and also a semi.

BRAND: Mossberg|Mossberg International # OF MAGS: 1
MODEL: 802 Plinkster Bolt Action SAFETY: Crossbolt Safety
TYPE: Bolt Action Pistol SIGHTS: No Sights
CALIBER: 22LR BARREL LENGTH: 10"
FINISH: Blue OVERALL LENGTH: 19"
ACTION: Bolt Action WEIGHT: 3 3/4 lbs
STOCK: Black Synthetic Traditional Pistol Grip PACKAGING:
CAPACITY: 10+1 FEATURES: Rifling: 1-16"
CHOKES: FEATURES: Detachable Magazine
CHAMBER: BUTT PLATE:
MUZZLE: RECEIVER: Blue, Grooved to Accept 3/8" Scope Mounts
MSRP $243


NOTE! Also being announced is a semi auto version. Info below

BRAND: Mossberg|Mossberg International # OF MAGS: 1
MODEL: 702 Plinkster Autoloading Pistol SAFETY: Crossbolt Safety
TYPE: Semi-Automatic Pistol SIGHTS: No Sights
CALIBER: 22LR BARREL LENGTH: 10"
FINISH: Blue OVERALL LENGTH: 19"
ACTION: Double Action WEIGHT: 3 1/4 lbs
STOCK: Black Synthetic Traditional Pistol Grip PACKAGING:
CAPACITY: 10+1 FEATURES: Rifling: 1-16"
CHOKES: FEATURES: Detachable Magazine
CHAMBER: BUTT PLATE:
MUZZLE: RECEIVER: Blue, Grooved to Accept 3/8" Scope Mounts
MSRP $243

Both of these are syntetic stocked. A laminate wood stock will also be available for a few more coins. I don't know of a projected date of availability.

[Smokin7mm]

I would go with the Anschutz for sure. Also, I read somewhere that a gun manufacturer introduced a new .22LR bolt handgun at the SHOT Show. Anyone else see that?

Steve W.

Mossberg put out a semi auto and a bolt 22lr. The bolt action is called the plinkster.
Here is a link to the SP discussion on it.
http://specialtypistols.infopop.cc/e...35/m/308107444

Bret

[PilotShaneR]

That Mossberg might have to be one I get in April to mess with and make it a lefty for my son. Will have to see if I can modify a stock from something else.

[gibar]

Although a little slow to learn I would recommend the MOA. Very accurate pistol with great sights. There is one on Gunbroker now for a reasonable price but with only a scope mount and no sights. He has a bunch of other MOA's listed and his phone number so you may be able to get him to swap the scopemount for the irons on one of the other pistols. There is also one listed on specialitypistols.com now also but no pic so I do not know what exact setup it is. This is a pic of my unlimited .22 MOA.

GMORRISSILLYWET22B.jpg

[highstandard40]

One thing to consider when choosing the right gun for silhouette is what position you will be using. The MOA is a darn fine gun and very accurate but that long barrel MOA would not work for me because there is too much weight forward of the grip. I shoot freestyle in the Creedmore position and you would have to have the wrist strength of Konan to hold that thing up. It would work great for dead frog by my body won't allow that. The Exemplar is a little lighter and can be converted to center grip. Remember, it's not just how tiny a group you can shoot off of sandbags when choosing just the right gun. It's how well you can shoot the gun from silhouette positions.

[IHMSA80x80]

My pick would be the Exemplar. Outstanding guns.

[PilotShaneR]

I have been keeping an eye on that MOA that has the great price. I did not see the other one though. I will head there now and ask some questions.

Thanks for all the inputs. I am making a freestyle gun for the flop position, so the ft wt is not a big deal. I will put a 24-36 scope on it, maybe the weaver T36. This is something I have been wanting to do for quite a while.

[willk]

One more to add to the list. A Ruger Charger with a trigger would be a great gun. If I was not shooting an Anschutz, that is the direction I would go. (IF I COULD GET OVER THIS STUPID FLU)

[BurmKiller]

I agree with the above post that asks which position you intend to shoot in. The weight and balance of each of these is different - as are the price points.

1) Anschutz comes in 3 different flavors that you can shoot in IHMSA - the 1416 MSP E Unlimited and Production Models (54 based action two stage triggers, the best of the group, but EXTREMELY difficult to find as they have been out of production for many years. Expect to pay over $1500 if you do find one. It took my 3 years to find the ones I own including hundreds of smaller gun sites. The Anschutz Exemplar's are based on the 64 action and have a nice single stage trigger and either 10" or 14" barrels. These are far more common and you can always find them for sale on various gun sites. I even picked a 14" barreled one up at a local gun store used a couple years ago. These are the most common model found in IHMSA. The are light weight, well balanced, excellent shooting guns. Expect to pay from $350-550. I have a few of these, and found 2 that had never been fired and paid $425 a piece for them last year. You really cannot go wrong with these. The Anschutz 64P is the newest variant of the Exemplar. It is not available with a 14" barrel like the original Exemplar, only a 10". It comes with a slightly heavier synthetic stock instead of wood. I do not believe the .22LR variant is in production any longer but these are easy to find online in about the same price range as the original Exemplars. I purchased one of these brand new 2 years ago from a dealer in .17HMR. In my opinion the fit and finish and feel of the trigger/action were not as nice as the original Exemplar's, but they are still fine pistols. Note that all three models were available with different types of sights, including hooded sights, adjustable target sights and even a very unique teardrop looking sight (Steve, Apache308, had a set of these on his and may have pictures). No matter which of these you select, you really cannot go wrong. Many, many perfect scores are shot with these, and they all far exceed my ability to shoot them. Theses are all rear grip, bolt action, so dead frog works great, and because they are fairly light Creedmoor works fine. I have two that Mike Dewey converted to center grips and he sells (through Ken Light) a conversion kit to do the same (Steve, Apache308 has one of these and some nice step by step pictures on Specialty Pistols).

2) Charger / PiCuda / Other 10/22 Pistols - The idea is nothing new but about 3 years ago Magnum Research came out with an official factory version of a Ruger 10/22 pistol so an NFA tax stamp was no longer required. I have one of these and some of the parts are actual Ruger parts (like the trigger, sadly), others are MR like the graphite barrel and their own receiver with built in rail. Very shortly afterwords Ruger released their version, the Charger. The MR version is no longer in production (according to the local Ellett Brothers rep) but easy to find. There are also a half dozen small shops now making 10/22 pistols. The PiCuda will run you around $450, the Charger around $300 and the others anywhere from $400 to $1500. At the end of the day these are all just 10/22's. These are a HUGE aftermarket of parts available. You could easily build your own and not use any Ruger parts. A half dozen people from MOA to Volquartsen to KIDD, etc. make receivers (just make sure that your FFL lists them as a PISTOL in the transfer book so you are legal) and you can put together whatever you want. Some may argue with this, but these can be made EXTREMELY accurate, but you can also drop $3K on one in no time. They are perhaps the most "fun" of the ones you listed because anyone with basic mechanical skills and no gunsmith training can easily build and work on these - and you can change bits and pieces every week if you like. The fact that they are semi-auto's means that you do not have to move the gun or your hands during a bank of targets - a distinct bonus. The drawback is the weight and shape. These are heavier and may not be comfortable in Creedmoor for you. Due to the shape of the factory stock and placement of the magazine you would have to see if they worked for you in Dead Frog or your intended position.

3. The MOA is a machine. It takes a bit to learn to load and unload as it is "unique", but it is deadly accurate. By the time you get sights on it, it will set you back around $1K. You can have Richard make you additional barrels though and use this for multiple purposes - though changing the barrel is not really an "at the range" kind of thing like a T/C. These are heavy pistols though - easily the heaviest you listed. Many shooters do use these in Creedmoor, but make sure you know what you are getting in to. For Dead Frog or that over the one leg broken thingie these work great.

4. The XP-100 never was chambered in .22LR. There have been 4-5 gunsmiths that have sold "conversions" over the years, with Calfee being the most well known (see the Photo Gallery to see my Calfee) or IHMSA80x80 can show you pictures of his dozen or so...). I know of at least two gunsmiths that have talked about performing these conversions but have not seen anything concrete yet. Given today's availability of excellent aftermarket bolts from Pacific, a "modern" conversion could potentially be easier and better than the Calfee conversion. As an alternative, there is no shortage of .22LR bolt actions available that could be used to build your own bolt gun - as long as the manufacturer of the action is willing to ship to the FFL and list either as "receiver only" or "pistol receiver" and your FFL books as such the BATFE will be happy. When using these actions the concern is weight - since these are made for rimfire benchrest. While I have seen Calfee conversions and others hit the market, they are very rare and several thousand dollars.

5) Savage Striker. Well...OK. I had two of these (and if you knew me, you would know that I NEVER get rid of guns unless I really, really do not like them). There are some shooters that love these. I had three gunsmiths try to work on the trigger with no luck. Even the fan site's best advice is some trick with a piece of a coke can. Out of fairness, some people love these. The non rimfire models do have the option to switch barrels and I believe there is an aftermarket trigger, but the rimfire version has none of these. I can honestly say I would never own a rimfire version of one of these again - but I am certain there are many that would. For the same price you can pick up a used Anschutz Exemplar in basically the same configuration that will out shoot the Striker all day long...

Maybe more info than you wanted, but hope it helps.

[35isit]

All the guns he mentioned will get the job done. But he left one option out. A TC with a custom barrel. Shane stated he was building a gun for the flop position. I am using a custom MGM .22 barrel in the flop position. It is way more than accurate and user friendly enough to get the job done. just another option.

[BurmKiller]

All the guns he mentioned will get the job done.

Good (and accurate) point. A T/C is often viewed as the gun of choice for Production class - while the ones listed above are all Unlimited guns (except, of course, for the MOA). I think every IHMSA shooter has, or has had, a Contender. With the use of after market barrels legal for Production and Unlimited class, this one frame/grip with a few barrels has always been an excellent option for every SM, FP and BB event except for Revolver. It is very reasonable price wise and has a healthy aftermarket for grips, sights/sight mounts, barrels, etc.

The one and only argument against it - and I am not taking sides on this one - is accuracy. With the legalization of aftermarket barrels this has become less of a concern. If you spend some time reading Mike Bellm's site he walks you through increasing accuracy, doing your own trigger jobs, etc. Beware that a lot of his accuracy mods/tweaks would kick you out of Product legal, but all can be used in Unlimited. The "Pro T/C" argument is that the Contender and proper barrel will outperform the shooter (very true in my case). The "Anti T/C" argument is that you can make a T/C accurate to a point, but a falling block or bolt action will - out of the box - outperform a T/C, and that at International levels, especially with shoot-off targets, every little bit helps.

I do not buy guns entirely because I need that extra bit of accuracy (as many will happily testify). I buy them because they are "cool" or I just like something about them. At the end of the day it really comes down to personal preference (which gun you like) and honest self-assessment of your shooting skills. In the hands of the very best shooters, I feel that it would take a very tuned T/C to shoot with the others and such a T/C would end up costing more than an Anschutz. In the hands of an "average IHMSA shooter" I think a T/C is a fine option. Many matches have been won with a T/C.

[varmints]

All the guns he mentioned will get the job done. But he left one option out. A TC with a custom barrel. Shane stated he was building a gun for the flop position. I am using a custom MGM .22 barrel in the flop position. It is way more than accurate and user friendly enough to get the job done. just another option.

I think more folks have gotten into "specialty handgunning" via the T/C than any other. And for good reasons...economical, versatile (as Doug said quick to change barrels) and there is a "bunch" of custom barrel makers (MGM, Bullberry, OTT, SSK) who will provide great results versus some factory barrels. And if you are not dictated by competition regs., you can get a "good to great" trigger pull through a number of shops, including some of the (mentioned) barrel makers, and T/C specialists like Jim Henderschot (Shots Gunsmithing) in Oregon,http://www.shotsgunsmithing.com/ who I can personally recommend (and so will many others).

[varmints]

Burmkiller,

You apparently typed "quicker" than I do.......the other virtue of a T/C is....it is easy to sell....break it down and sell it barrel, action, etc. you will always find a buyer.
(a neighbor once told me..."it's easy to find a guy with $50 in his wallet...there's fewer walking around with a thousand...)

[54914]

Why just have one? My favorite for the flop position is a TC with a 22 Match carbine barrel (older tapered kind) shortened to 15", and topped with a Weaver T-36; It is also fitted with open sights for Ulimited. I have also taken a Ruger MKII and fitted a 15" barrel, which is very well balanced in creedmoor and will shoot perfect scores in UAS all day long. For a novelty, I purchased a Ruger Charger and installed a 12" barrel and a custom stock; it is set up for both US and Unlimited. And finally, I picked up an unfired Anschutz Exemplar XIV two weeks ago at a gun show in Idaho. Now, the problem is which one to concentrate on for the WCC coming up in June. So far, my favorite of all of these is my T/C; It has shot so well that I sold my other 10" Anschutz a couple of years ago because I shot better with the T/C.

[Smokin7mm]

I agree with the above post that asks which position you intend to shoot in. The weight and balance of each of these is different - as are the price points.

5) Savage Striker. Well...OK. I had two of these (and if you knew me, you would know that I NEVER get rid of guns unless I really, really do not like them). There are some shooters that love these. I had three gunsmiths try to work on the trigger with no luck. Even the fan site's best advice is some trick with a piece of a coke can. Out of fairness, some people love these. The non rimfire models do have the option to switch barrels and I believe there is an aftermarket trigger, but the rimfire version has none of these. I can honestly say I would never own a rimfire version of one of these again - but I am certain there are many that would. For the same price you can pick up a used Anschutz Exemplar in basically the same configuration that will out shoot the Striker all day long...

Maybe more info than you wanted, but hope it helps.

Burmkiller,
All the above listed are nice in their own respects. As for the rimfire striker, yes the factory trigger was pretty bad. You could smith it a little to get it slightly better but not much. Rifle basics made a replacement adjustable sear that worked for some but I never tried it. For a short period after it came out Dell Taylor made a really nice three lever drop in trigger for the rimfire striker so I bought one. Granted the trigger was almost as much as the gun (130.00) but it was worth it. Mine is right at about 4 ounces and is rock solid as it is three lever design. The striker stock is not very hand compatible but a little body filler and some fiberglass work and mine fits my hand like a glove...........and it does shoot!

Bret

[BurmKiller]

I will say that some of the best looking paint jobs I have ever seen were in Mississippi a couple years back at the regionals on Strikers. I do think in the right hands any gun can be made to fire accurately, but the question is just how much time and money are you willing to spend? If you are a Striker fan, than you can definitely get it there...just not my thing.